Curse

Scf Big M · Aug 06, 2009, 06:32 PM // 18:32

I'd have to agree with Skyy. It destroys the concept of a limited skillset. So we can only carry 8 skills instead of 20, what does it matter when you only need 3 to be more or less invincible.

I think SF is overpowered, but moreso I think the high end areas need an update. If you notice, all the elite areas are just higher level, harder hitting monsters. Theres nothing creative about that, so of course SF blows through it. Give them counters, self heals, whatever, and the problem probably goes away, while leaving SF as a viable option for soloing or running like the devs have stated they want to keep it as.

toocooltang · Aug 06, 2009, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Skyy is correct... one of the best players I have ever seen is Sacratus Ignis. He doesn't play anymore but before he left made a post on the dungeon farming thread... The last sentance of the first paragraph sums it up.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...&postcount=130

aga · Aug 06, 2009, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scf Big M

I think SF is overpowered, but moreso I think the high end areas need an update. If you notice, all the elite areas are just higher level, harder hitting monsters. Theres nothing creative about that, so of course SF blows through it. Give them counters, self heals, whatever, and the problem probably goes away, while leaving SF as a viable option for soloing or running like the devs have stated they want to keep it as.

I agree, I think the high end areas need to be updated moreso then SF and 600/smite. But I really can't see much happening to do this, maybe they'll add some more Incubi type foes, but this would just make them slightly harder and still fairly easily overcome. I stuggle to see what a-net can do to stop dungeon running without making the dungeons too hard for regular players.

As for the high end areas such as, DoA, Deep, Urgoz, UW, FoW...I'm sure they could stop SF breezing through them by adding skills like Soulrending Shriek to some of the monsters in them. I would really love to see this happen, but doubtful i will.

Lishy · Aug 06, 2009, 08:51 PM // 20:51

DoA and Urgoz aren't really a problem though. The outposts are practically abandoned. Even during zbounties.

Yoom Omer · Aug 06, 2009, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Sform isn't the problem - not the big part of it, at least. The problem is that monsters run with suckish bars, and instead of fixing their bars A.Net decided to give them unfair buffs.

If every group of in the game consisted of some healers, some dmg dealers, some guys to annoy players (well, guys that have intterupts and stuff, mesmers prolly, rangers?) and rez, SF wouldn't be able to breeze thorugh. Balanced would. Also, they can bring some monsters signet of disenchantment, Hex eater vrtex etc., and shadow form goes Kaboom.

Simath · Aug 06, 2009, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoom Omer

Sform isn't the problem - not the big part of it, at least. The problem is that monsters run with suckish bars, and instead of fixing their bars A.Net decided to give them unfair buffs.

If every group of in the game consisted of some healers, some dmg dealers, some guys to annoy players (well, guys that have intterupts and stuff, mesmers prolly, rangers?) and rez, SF wouldn't be able to breeze thorugh. Balanced would. Also, they can bring some monsters signet of disenchantment, Hex eater vrtex etc., and shadow form goes Kaboom.

So instead of fixing one skill, you would rather have them fix all the mobs. Absolutely brilliant.

Also, groups composed in a balanced fashion can breeze through areas. Failures are due to the people behind the builds lacking intelligence.

Bryant Again · Aug 06, 2009, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simath

So instead of fixing one skill, you would rather have them fix all the mobs. Absolutely brilliant.

But for the record, he is right: the AI in this game is pretty trash. An actual smart group of AI wouldn't keep trying to kill SF sins, they'd just ignore them. Instead they cast every single thing they have at them.

But if ANet isn't going to fix the AI then they're gonna need to tone down SF.

Dzjudz · Aug 07, 2009, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Not this month.

Shrimz · Aug 07, 2009, 01:40 AM // 01:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

Not this month.

This. Hopefully later.

Wynthyst · Aug 07, 2009, 01:42 AM // 01:42

Do any of you read anything other than this forum?

Quote:

I am more concerned about UW, FoW and DoA having issues with balance that encourage this style of play than I am concerned about Shadow Form. I would rather work on making those areas fun and bug free in ways that discourage the use of SF than work on nerfing SF into the ground. ~ Linsey Murdock

vandevere · Aug 07, 2009, 01:48 AM // 01:48

Looks like Linsey's tired of the nerfbat too...

Hopefully, she'll find a good alternative...

A11Eur0 · Aug 07, 2009, 01:55 AM // 01:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simath

So instead of fixing one skill, you would rather have them fix all the mobs. Absolutely brilliant.

Yes. Yes it is. Give monsters decent bars and remove their unfair, overpowered inherent abilities and characteristics, toss in a couple signet enchant removals here and there and it's done. Make the enemies balanced and it'll make for a better game overall.

Bryant Again · Aug 07, 2009, 02:17 AM // 02:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynthyst

Do any of you read anything other than this forum?

That's why I love Lindsey.

Simath · Aug 07, 2009, 02:56 AM // 02:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by A11Eur0

Yes. Yes it is. Give monsters decent bars and remove their unfair, overpowered inherent abilities and characteristics, toss in a couple signet enchant removals here and there and it's done. Make the enemies balanced and it'll make for a better game overall.

First off, you should probably do some research on the programming that fixing every single mob would require, since you are apparently uneducated on the subject. At this point in time a task like the aforementioned would require more effort and man hours than Anet is willing to give.

Secondly, you're joking right? I'm sorry, but I just cannot take you serious. You want to remove the monsters overpowered abilities, but yet at the same time you want to give them decent bars. So you want to make them easier and harder all in one? You seem terribly confused.

The enemies do not need to be balanced. Skills that can be easily exploited in the vast majority of the areas (Shadow Form says hi) is the problem. Items such as consumables need to be removed, and so do PvE skills such as SY!. The problem isn't that hard to see, but some people prefer to remain blind to the matter.

Arkantos · Aug 07, 2009, 02:56 AM // 02:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynthyst

Do any of you read anything other than this forum?

There are plenty of reasons why users don't read the wiki, but that's another discussion.

Anyways, making the areas more fun to play and discouraging players from running SF is a great idea. The problem, however, is that no matter how fun the areas are, people are going to run what's easiest and most effective. Which means ANet can change these 3 areas to be more fun, but everyone is still going to run SF because it's easy and effective.

Quote:

Secondly, you're joking right? I'm sorry, but I just cannot take you serious. You want to remove the monsters overpowered abilities, but yet at the same time you want to give them decent bars. So you want to make them easier and harder all in one? You seem terribly confused.

Sorry Simath, but he's correct. The way HM, some monster skills and environmental effects were implemented was horrible. I'd much rather do areas where the monsters don't have overpowered abilities, but have good skill bars that synergize well, and good AI.

However, in order for this to happen, ANet would have to remove the overpowered abilities players have (PvE skills, consumables), so it's never going to happen.

A11Eur0 · Aug 07, 2009, 03:08 AM // 03:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simath

First off, you should probably do some research on the programming that fixing every single mob would require, since you are apparently uneducated on the subject. At this point in time a task like the aforementioned would require more effort and man hours than Anet is willing to give.

Secondly, you're joking right? I'm sorry, but I just cannot take you serious. You want to remove the monsters overpowered abilities, but yet at the same time you want to give them decent bars. So you want to make them easier and harder all in one? You seem terribly confused.

The enemies do not need to be balanced. Skills that can be easily exploited in the vast majority of the areas (Shadow Form says hi) is the problem. Items such as consumables need to be removed, and so do PvE skills such as SY!. The problem isn't that hard to see, but some people prefer to remain blind to the matter.

I said it would be better for the game, not easier. Not once did I comment on the ease of the task, so take your passive aggressive idiocy elsewhere.

I don't want them to be made easier, I just want unfair advantages taken away. I want mobs to be subject to the same rules as the players fighting them, and giving them balanced bars will achieve that. Giving them balanced bars also forces them to make the AI use those bars effectively, which will improve hero AI as well, which helps the game overall.

Hard mode gives monsters increased movement and attack speeds, higher levels, and increased damage overall due to level differences. These differences are matched with consumables. Giving them balanced skill bars and removing inherent advantages other than those granted by Hard Mode would more than balance the game in PvE...if anything giving them good synergy and AI would make the game harder overall, and reduce, if not eliminate the effectiveness of gimmick builds. SF is so fragile it's not funny. If you think it's god mode you've never used it. If you think SF will survive in any mob with a single signet disenchanter you're balls-deep in your own bunghole, not to mention other non-spell/attack abilities that will laugh at SF like it isn't even there.

Simath · Aug 07, 2009, 03:15 AM // 03:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by A11Eur0

I said it would be better for the game, not easier. Not once did I comment on the ease of the task, so take your passive aggressive idiocy elsewhere.

So, apparently not fixing a skill which has caused so many issues and problems, has opened so many negative doors, and has just hurt the game in general would not be better for the game? As long as Shadow Form exists it will be abused. There is such a large pool of skills to choose from, it would be horrendously difficult for Anet to make sure it could never be used in the way it has been.

Whether or not you made a remark on "the ease of the task" is irrelevant. You were suggesting something that is near impossible considering Anet's current situation, and needed to be commented on.

As for my passive aggressive idiocy, well, I guess you don't realize this is the internet. I apologize. Next time I will preface my posts with a warning.

[DE] · Aug 07, 2009, 03:19 AM // 03:19

Subjecting mobs to the same rules as the players is what makes a game too easy and no fun to play. It's PvE, if anything, fighting against nothing but balanced mobs the entire time is the fastest way to bore yourself to death.

The concept seems like a good one - give mobs balanced bars to improve the state of the game and allow for more interesting fights. But in reality you don't want to have to fight a balanced mob every other minute. Not to mention after the first ten fights you'll want to quit Guild Wars and never come back. Only so many bars in Guild Wars can be balanced and people suggest giving every single mob in guild wars these bars. If you enjoy fighting the same enemy over and over I guess that will float your boat, but if not then you're out of luck.

The fact is, it's the imbalanced bars and gimmicky skill combinations that make PvE what it is. The diversity of these bars allow for a different experience no matter what zone you go to. Granted, not every bar for mobs are very well thought out, and I can certainly name a fair share of ones that I hate. But if PvE was nothing but balanced builds and fair-fighting monsters then it wouldn't be much fun.

edit: Plus I don't like turtling until VoD just to kill one group of enemies. Please enjoy that year old joke as I'm sure it ages just like fine wine.

Racthoh · Aug 07, 2009, 03:22 AM // 03:22

Quote:

I am more concerned about UW, FoW and DoA having issues with balance that encourage this style of play than I am concerned about Shadow Form. I would rather work on making those areas fun and bug free in ways that discourage the use of SF than work on nerfing SF into the ground.

Make Sliver Armor trigger a maximum of one time per second.

A11Eur0 · Aug 07, 2009, 04:26 AM // 04:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simath

Whether or not you made a remark on "the ease of the task" is irrelevant. You were suggesting something that is near impossible considering Anet's current situation, and needed to be commented on.

Again: what I suggested and the effort required to complete the task is irrelevant, because I said "this would be better for the game."

See, there exists such a thing as reality. In this reality there exists such a thing as reason. I used my ability to reason to make a statement. You decided to forego your alleged ability to reason and slam me with an insult because I made a simple statement saying what would have been better. It's called criticism: Anet decided to code in something completely different when they gave enemies extra inherent abilities, rather than take already-existing skills and creating usable skill bars, for these NEWLY CREATED enemies in a NEWLY CREATED area of the game. See, When someone says what someone SHOULD HAVE DONE, and what SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE would have been easier than what WAS done, that's called use of reason and common sense. Try it someday, you'll see the merits.